<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Some questions for British research policy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?feed=rss2&#038;p=1075" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075</link>
	<description>Some personal views on nanotechnology, science and science policy from Richard Jones</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 15:27:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: cdn lowest G8 corp taxes = low corp R+D</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075&#038;cpage=1#comment-37015</link>
		<dc:creator>cdn lowest G8 corp taxes = low corp R+D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 15:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075#comment-37015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think (not sure) the Canadian gov of the late 90s invested about $4.5B in PEM technology with distilled water needs and a narrow temp range (bad in Canada) being the main hurdles, also was invested in a precious metals trough.  They sold the vehicle cell technology they had for $260M, or something like that.  Their forklift battery biz is good, but probably not worth much more than the big money passenger car arm they sold.  That space application is an in situ sample analysis platform, that doesn&#039;t exist yet.  It would cut the time for sample analysis missions to Jovian and Saturn system in half.  But needs automated SPMs, particle beams and other fossil findinf techniques.  Nanotach obviously makes space cheaper via lighter computers and aerospace parts....I meant GWB funded the Moon speech out of nothing more than cutting NASA programmes needed to go to the Moon.  The ISS was to be shortened, Cancelled CAM could&#039;ve determined the Lunar plant composition.
Forgot to mention for peat moss, it isn&#039;t being bred like agri, or being extensively R+Ded; Freeman just figured out two years ago fuscum when wet retards decomposition enzymes.
There are 50000 plants/m^2, so maybe a micron-tech gardening clipper could be devised to aid vegetative generation, something that looks like a tiny cheese grater.  Existing farm implements traumatize the plant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think (not sure) the Canadian gov of the late 90s invested about $4.5B in PEM technology with distilled water needs and a narrow temp range (bad in Canada) being the main hurdles, also was invested in a precious metals trough.  They sold the vehicle cell technology they had for $260M, or something like that.  Their forklift battery biz is good, but probably not worth much more than the big money passenger car arm they sold.  That space application is an in situ sample analysis platform, that doesn&#8217;t exist yet.  It would cut the time for sample analysis missions to Jovian and Saturn system in half.  But needs automated SPMs, particle beams and other fossil findinf techniques.  Nanotach obviously makes space cheaper via lighter computers and aerospace parts&#8230;.I meant GWB funded the Moon speech out of nothing more than cutting NASA programmes needed to go to the Moon.  The ISS was to be shortened, Cancelled CAM could&#8217;ve determined the Lunar plant composition.<br />
Forgot to mention for peat moss, it isn&#8217;t being bred like agri, or being extensively R+Ded; Freeman just figured out two years ago fuscum when wet retards decomposition enzymes.<br />
There are 50000 plants/m^2, so maybe a micron-tech gardening clipper could be devised to aid vegetative generation, something that looks like a tiny cheese grater.  Existing farm implements traumatize the plant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075&#038;cpage=1#comment-36964</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075#comment-36964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Patrick, I&#039;m not sure how, if the problem is academic researchers being no good at innovation, having fewer of them helps, particularly if those that remain focus their attention on internationally leading research.  I&#039;m also not sure what you mean when you say &quot;we&quot; are starving our SMEs of funding.  Who&#039;s &quot;we&quot; here - do you mean the banks, venture capitalists, equity investors, or do you think the state should be stepping in more?  And why do you single out their legal costs as the main problem?  

CDN, of course you must be right, the robustness of any &quot;stage-gating&quot; process has to be crucial for any R&amp;D.  And sometimes stuff just doesn&#039;t work out, and you&#039;ll have to accept that.  But Ballard is still going as a fuel cell company, so Canada got some benefit from their PEM program, didn&#039;t it?  I suspect the problem there is one of where a particular technology (fuel cells) fits into a much bigger picture (getting a different infrastructure for powering automobiles).  Not sure I would agree that the USA&#039;s moon program didn&#039;t have a precursor R&amp;D program - surely the massive military rocket and satellite program was what that built on.

Stephen, your examples of long-term benefits of research are good ones.  But I think you are illustrating my point about the need to consider the wider innovation system when arguing what benefits you get from blue-sky research.  In those cases, the blue sky research was able to provide economic benefits only because it existed in an environment in which inventions could be turned into products and taken to market.  The worry is that that environment, now, doesn&#039;t exist or is at least less favourable; perhaps it isn&#039;t so much the impact agenda that makes it impossible to wait a long time for the pay-off from such blue sky research, as the demand of venture capitalists for a big return in 5-10 years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick, I&#8217;m not sure how, if the problem is academic researchers being no good at innovation, having fewer of them helps, particularly if those that remain focus their attention on internationally leading research.  I&#8217;m also not sure what you mean when you say &#8220;we&#8221; are starving our SMEs of funding.  Who&#8217;s &#8220;we&#8221; here &#8211; do you mean the banks, venture capitalists, equity investors, or do you think the state should be stepping in more?  And why do you single out their legal costs as the main problem?  </p>
<p>CDN, of course you must be right, the robustness of any &#8220;stage-gating&#8221; process has to be crucial for any R&#038;D.  And sometimes stuff just doesn&#8217;t work out, and you&#8217;ll have to accept that.  But Ballard is still going as a fuel cell company, so Canada got some benefit from their PEM program, didn&#8217;t it?  I suspect the problem there is one of where a particular technology (fuel cells) fits into a much bigger picture (getting a different infrastructure for powering automobiles).  Not sure I would agree that the USA&#8217;s moon program didn&#8217;t have a precursor R&#038;D program &#8211; surely the massive military rocket and satellite program was what that built on.</p>
<p>Stephen, your examples of long-term benefits of research are good ones.  But I think you are illustrating my point about the need to consider the wider innovation system when arguing what benefits you get from blue-sky research.  In those cases, the blue sky research was able to provide economic benefits only because it existed in an environment in which inventions could be turned into products and taken to market.  The worry is that that environment, now, doesn&#8217;t exist or is at least less favourable; perhaps it isn&#8217;t so much the impact agenda that makes it impossible to wait a long time for the pay-off from such blue sky research, as the demand of venture capitalists for a big return in 5-10 years.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075&#038;cpage=1#comment-36960</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075#comment-36960</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, Stephen, your earlier comment was trapped in the spam filter, which has a mind of its own.  Now released.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Stephen, your earlier comment was trapped in the spam filter, which has a mind of its own.  Now released.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen Moss</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075&#038;cpage=1#comment-36956</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Moss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075#comment-36956</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have attempted to post a comment but without success. Quite a long one. Is there a word limit?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have attempted to post a comment but without success. Quite a long one. Is there a word limit?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cdn lowest G8 corp taxes = low corp R+D</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075&#038;cpage=1#comment-36945</link>
		<dc:creator>cdn lowest G8 corp taxes = low corp R+D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075#comment-36945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like challenge R+D but has to be good targets and flexible enough to abandon, which is hard for a rigid R+D schedule.  Canada picked PEM fuel cells late 1990s and didn&#039;t get good ROI due to technical hurdles.  USA went to the Moon under W without any precursor R+D funding.  I like R+Ding cheap mineral substrates.  An Enceladus ocean core mission would cost $100Bs and might not succeed for under a trillion.  The lab-on-a-chip sensors would be nanotech.  Much soil has more than 25kg/m^2 of carbon, this dwarves 28g/m^2 annual peat growth, unless considering peat might impede drainage.  At your Bangor U, C.Freeman is doing good research, but missing permafrost drainage.  Need biogeology to grow peat quick.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like challenge R+D but has to be good targets and flexible enough to abandon, which is hard for a rigid R+D schedule.  Canada picked PEM fuel cells late 1990s and didn&#8217;t get good ROI due to technical hurdles.  USA went to the Moon under W without any precursor R+D funding.  I like R+Ding cheap mineral substrates.  An Enceladus ocean core mission would cost $100Bs and might not succeed for under a trillion.  The lab-on-a-chip sensors would be nanotech.  Much soil has more than 25kg/m^2 of carbon, this dwarves 28g/m^2 annual peat growth, unless considering peat might impede drainage.  At your Bangor U, C.Freeman is doing good research, but missing permafrost drainage.  Need biogeology to grow peat quick.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen Moss</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075&#038;cpage=1#comment-36943</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Moss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jul 2011 09:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075#comment-36943</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a researcher in the biomedical sciences it is interesting to see that much of what you have written holds true in my own field. One distinction perhaps is that the MRC and BBSRC still fund largely according to the Haldane principle, albeit that both organisations set out strategic or priority areas for research (as does the Wellcome Trust). Nevertheless, any investigator with a little cunning can mould their proposal to meet the necessary fit.

But it is the so-called &#039;impact agenda&#039; that imposes the greatest strictures on innovation in biomedicine. On one hand, it is right that any grant writer should have to think about and comment on the impact their work may have, particularly when using public funds. But it is the tightly linked expectation that research must deliver economic benefits, implicit in the utterings of Willetts and Cable, that puts investigators in a straightjacket. Much of the most profitable research (in terms of return to a national economy) can take years to deliver. I can give two brief examples in an area with which I am familiar, therapeutic monoclonal antibodies that block new blood vessel growth, and thus have value in the treatment of cancer.

The first concerns a small protein named VEGF that stimulates blood vessel growth. VEGF was discovered as the result of blue skies research, and the antibody that blocks its activity was patented some ten years before entering clinical use. Last year that antibody had worldwide sales of &gt;$6bn, with a derivative used to treat blindness adding a further $3bn. Another more recently developed antibody against a different target, was patented in 2004, licensed in 2008 and has yet to go to market. However, the licensing deal was worth €500M in milestone payments, and if it goes to market double digit royalties will follow.

What these examples illustrate is that if innovation in the UK is to yield similar returns, which is clearly what government and tax payer would like, the impact agenda becomes meaningless. The fundamental, basic, blue-skies research that primed these massive money-spinning drugs, would almost certainly not have been supported under the constraints imposed by the demands of short-term impact. A second point, related to your question of whether the UK is politically and economically receptive to innovation, is that when or if a UK investigator stumbles upon a therapeutic with such potential, will there be a UK company standing by ready to take up the license? Selling the rights to a US, Swiss or German company might make for one happy vice-chancellor and a handful of wealthy academics, but the lions share of the global revenues along with the manufacturing jobs, will remain outside the UK.

For innovation to yield economic benefit, there needs to be proper investment in basic science (as in Germany), with investigators rather than research councils taking responsibility for the direction of their research. You mention that there is a feeling that the economic benefits of science funding have been over-sold. If this is true, it is not because funding is inadequate in the UK (though that is a handicap), it is because funding is being strategically and unwittingly manipulated in such a way as to ensure low returns.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a researcher in the biomedical sciences it is interesting to see that much of what you have written holds true in my own field. One distinction perhaps is that the MRC and BBSRC still fund largely according to the Haldane principle, albeit that both organisations set out strategic or priority areas for research (as does the Wellcome Trust). Nevertheless, any investigator with a little cunning can mould their proposal to meet the necessary fit.</p>
<p>But it is the so-called &#8216;impact agenda&#8217; that imposes the greatest strictures on innovation in biomedicine. On one hand, it is right that any grant writer should have to think about and comment on the impact their work may have, particularly when using public funds. But it is the tightly linked expectation that research must deliver economic benefits, implicit in the utterings of Willetts and Cable, that puts investigators in a straightjacket. Much of the most profitable research (in terms of return to a national economy) can take years to deliver. I can give two brief examples in an area with which I am familiar, therapeutic monoclonal antibodies that block new blood vessel growth, and thus have value in the treatment of cancer.</p>
<p>The first concerns a small protein named VEGF that stimulates blood vessel growth. VEGF was discovered as the result of blue skies research, and the antibody that blocks its activity was patented some ten years before entering clinical use. Last year that antibody had worldwide sales of &gt;$6bn, with a derivative used to treat blindness adding a further $3bn. Another more recently developed antibody against a different target, was patented in 2004, licensed in 2008 and has yet to go to market. However, the licensing deal was worth €500M in milestone payments, and if it goes to market double digit royalties will follow.</p>
<p>What these examples illustrate is that if innovation in the UK is to yield similar returns, which is clearly what government and tax payer would like, the impact agenda becomes meaningless. The fundamental, basic, blue-skies research that primed these massive money-spinning drugs, would almost certainly not have been supported under the constraints imposed by the demands of short-term impact. A second point, related to your question of whether the UK is politically and economically receptive to innovation, is that when or if a UK investigator stumbles upon a therapeutic with such potential, will there be a UK company standing by ready to take up the license? Selling the rights to a US, Swiss or German company might make for one happy vice-chancellor and a handful of wealthy academics, but the lions share of the global revenues along with the manufacturing jobs, will remain outside the UK.</p>
<p>For innovation to yield economic benefit, there needs to be proper investment in basic science (as in Germany), with investigators rather than research councils taking responsibility for the direction of their research. You mention that there is a feeling that the economic benefits of science funding have been over-sold. If this is true, it is not because funding is inadequate in the UK (though that is a handicap), it is because funding is being strategically and unwittingly manipulated in such a way as to ensure low returns.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: patrick andrews</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075&#038;cpage=1#comment-36940</link>
		<dc:creator>patrick andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jul 2011 15:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=1075#comment-36940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Innovation deficit? I think not. It seems to me that we have far too many academics who aren&#039;t effective innovators and we are also starving our high-tech SMEs of funding for essential legal protection.  

We need to scale down the UK university system so that it provides really effective, high-level education and with the expectation that only 10% of the remaining academics will undertake (internationally leading) research.  Of this, we may see only a tiny fraction leading to any commercial returns.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Innovation deficit? I think not. It seems to me that we have far too many academics who aren&#8217;t effective innovators and we are also starving our high-tech SMEs of funding for essential legal protection.  </p>
<p>We need to scale down the UK university system so that it provides really effective, high-level education and with the expectation that only 10% of the remaining academics will undertake (internationally leading) research.  Of this, we may see only a tiny fraction leading to any commercial returns.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
