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	<title>Comments on: Our faith in technology</title>
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	<description>Thoughts on the future of nanotechnology from Richard Jones</description>
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		<title>By: Lincoln Cannon</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=424&#038;cpage=1#comment-31150</link>
		<dc:creator>Lincoln Cannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The superlatives used commonly by religious persons and some transhumanists are, in my estimation, best understood as abstract ideals that roughly approximate the direction of our aspirations. For example, in the Mormon tradition, while the Bible and other scriptural texts refer to God explicitly as omnipotent and implicitly as omniscient, we yet posit various limitations to God&#039;s power (e.g., he can only organize the world from existing matter according to existing laws), and we consider God to be a progressing being (i.e., as humans are, God was; and as God is, humans may become). We can interpret this as mere irrational contradiction, or we can interpret this more charitably by trying to understand how the persons embracing these ideas might understand them. In the end, excessive optimism (superlative life) and excessive pessimism (superlative death) have the same practical result: apathy. Somewhere between the excesses is empowerment toward a better world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The superlatives used commonly by religious persons and some transhumanists are, in my estimation, best understood as abstract ideals that roughly approximate the direction of our aspirations. For example, in the Mormon tradition, while the Bible and other scriptural texts refer to God explicitly as omnipotent and implicitly as omniscient, we yet posit various limitations to God&#8217;s power (e.g., he can only organize the world from existing matter according to existing laws), and we consider God to be a progressing being (i.e., as humans are, God was; and as God is, humans may become). We can interpret this as mere irrational contradiction, or we can interpret this more charitably by trying to understand how the persons embracing these ideas might understand them. In the end, excessive optimism (superlative life) and excessive pessimism (superlative death) have the same practical result: apathy. Somewhere between the excesses is empowerment toward a better world.</p>
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		<title>By: Giulio Prisco</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=424&#038;cpage=1#comment-31135</link>
		<dc:creator>Giulio Prisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=424#comment-31135</guid>
		<description>Indeed, I am not afraid to talk about the spiritual dimensions of transhumanism. Besides the Mormin Transhumanist Association, take a look at the Society for Universal Immortalism (universalimmortalism.org) and the Order of Cosmic Engineers (cosmeng.org).

Kurzweil. He is probably too optimist regarding the development timeline of what you call superlative technology. I am sure he knows that. In my opinion his great merit is pointing out, loud and clear and simply, that the development he envisages are feasible in principle, in the sense that they are not incompatible with the known laws of nature and principles of applied engineering. If something is feasible in principle and viewed as desirable by enough people, history shows that sooner or later it is achieved. So I look forward to engineered immortality (in the sense of indefinite lifespan) and operational mind uploading. Perhaps a couple or a few decades later than envisaged by Kurzweil, but our species and the universe are young enough to afford waiting a bit more.

I have not been asked to appear in his forthcoming film, but I would be _honored_ if I were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, I am not afraid to talk about the spiritual dimensions of transhumanism. Besides the Mormin Transhumanist Association, take a look at the Society for Universal Immortalism (universalimmortalism.org) and the Order of Cosmic Engineers (cosmeng.org).</p>
<p>Kurzweil. He is probably too optimist regarding the development timeline of what you call superlative technology. I am sure he knows that. In my opinion his great merit is pointing out, loud and clear and simply, that the development he envisages are feasible in principle, in the sense that they are not incompatible with the known laws of nature and principles of applied engineering. If something is feasible in principle and viewed as desirable by enough people, history shows that sooner or later it is achieved. So I look forward to engineered immortality (in the sense of indefinite lifespan) and operational mind uploading. Perhaps a couple or a few decades later than envisaged by Kurzweil, but our species and the universe are young enough to afford waiting a bit more.</p>
<p>I have not been asked to appear in his forthcoming film, but I would be _honored_ if I were.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Wang</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=424&#038;cpage=1#comment-31124</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 07:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=424#comment-31124</guid>
		<description>Points in this article that I wanted to address:
1. peak oil could cause a societal collapse and thus prevent/cripple technological progress.

Oil shortage is something to be managed and their should be a transition to other energy - biofuels, nuclear power and renewables. This something which when I look at the details of energy appears to be either easily manageable or manageable with some difficulty but not difficulty that collapses society.

2. Climate change could cause a societal collapse

Geoengineering is easy. A side effect of human civilization (burning coal and oil and agriculture) is helping cause climate change. There are cheap plans that are reversible which can be used to offset climate change.
http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12052171


3. A criticism in this article seems to be that those who believe in technology progressing at particular rates similar to what has been observed for decades are over-simplifying technology and just creating chart forecasts. Then you are following the simplified concerns of some people about peak oil and climate change without looking at the current energy situation and the rate of field decline, offsetting oil recovery technology [not nanotech but oil technology that effects any potential production decline] and economic and societal adaptions, mitigations and offsets to address oil shortages and to enable an orderly transition from oil.

4. Technology is a product of society

Society is the aggregate result of people. People taking actions as individuals, families, networks, groups, companies, government departments, political actions etc... There are several not completed connected societies in the world today.

Technology and large projects are the results of people and the systems that they have created or are creating. 

Societies can still function well even when people are working towards different goals. 

People and companies can work towards radical life extension and gather resources towards that goal even if others do not want or agree with that goal.

5. SENS is not predicated on nanomedicine. Aubrey does not say that fixing the identified items achieves one thousand year lifespans in one feel swoop. It is a process of constantly improving maintenance. Like a vintage car, it is the constant effort of keeping it in good operating condition. Plus Aubrey is indicating that even if SENS is successful most people alive today will die well before one thousand years. He is indicating that the current situation can be further improved. From increasing life expectancy by 0.1 to 0.3 years each year to over 1 year each year. Aubrey does not indicate any inevitability to this work. He is indicating that it is a worthwhile effort and he has laid out a detailed plan for making progress which is producing some research success.

6. Many goals/projections are long term and involve a series of things to be achieved or for certain events to happen or for certain trends to hold. This is true of the climate change projections as well. ie. if x, y, and z then in 2100 no ice caps etc...

7. Great things can be achieved with technology [projects other people, groups] than just those working on nanotechnology, AI or SENS life extension.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/06/achieving-mundane-technological.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Achieving a mundane singularity&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Points in this article that I wanted to address:<br />
1. peak oil could cause a societal collapse and thus prevent/cripple technological progress.</p>
<p>Oil shortage is something to be managed and their should be a transition to other energy &#8211; biofuels, nuclear power and renewables. This something which when I look at the details of energy appears to be either easily manageable or manageable with some difficulty but not difficulty that collapses society.</p>
<p>2. Climate change could cause a societal collapse</p>
<p>Geoengineering is easy. A side effect of human civilization (burning coal and oil and agriculture) is helping cause climate change. There are cheap plans that are reversible which can be used to offset climate change.<br />
<a href="http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12052171" rel="nofollow">http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12052171</a></p>
<p>3. A criticism in this article seems to be that those who believe in technology progressing at particular rates similar to what has been observed for decades are over-simplifying technology and just creating chart forecasts. Then you are following the simplified concerns of some people about peak oil and climate change without looking at the current energy situation and the rate of field decline, offsetting oil recovery technology [not nanotech but oil technology that effects any potential production decline] and economic and societal adaptions, mitigations and offsets to address oil shortages and to enable an orderly transition from oil.</p>
<p>4. Technology is a product of society</p>
<p>Society is the aggregate result of people. People taking actions as individuals, families, networks, groups, companies, government departments, political actions etc&#8230; There are several not completed connected societies in the world today.</p>
<p>Technology and large projects are the results of people and the systems that they have created or are creating. </p>
<p>Societies can still function well even when people are working towards different goals. </p>
<p>People and companies can work towards radical life extension and gather resources towards that goal even if others do not want or agree with that goal.</p>
<p>5. SENS is not predicated on nanomedicine. Aubrey does not say that fixing the identified items achieves one thousand year lifespans in one feel swoop. It is a process of constantly improving maintenance. Like a vintage car, it is the constant effort of keeping it in good operating condition. Plus Aubrey is indicating that even if SENS is successful most people alive today will die well before one thousand years. He is indicating that the current situation can be further improved. From increasing life expectancy by 0.1 to 0.3 years each year to over 1 year each year. Aubrey does not indicate any inevitability to this work. He is indicating that it is a worthwhile effort and he has laid out a detailed plan for making progress which is producing some research success.</p>
<p>6. Many goals/projections are long term and involve a series of things to be achieved or for certain events to happen or for certain trends to hold. This is true of the climate change projections as well. ie. if x, y, and z then in 2100 no ice caps etc&#8230;</p>
<p>7. Great things can be achieved with technology [projects other people, groups] than just those working on nanotechnology, AI or SENS life extension.</p>
<p><a href="http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/06/achieving-mundane-technological.html" rel="nofollow">Achieving a mundane singularity</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=424&#038;cpage=1#comment-31117</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 09:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=424#comment-31117</guid>
		<description>Well, Giulio Prisco isn&#039;t afraid to talk about the spiritual dimensions of transhumanism (see this &lt;a href=&quot;http://transumanar.com/index.php/site/chat_with_r_geraci_on_transhumanism_religion_and_cosmic_engineers_in_vr&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;example &lt;/a&gt;).  And we have a &lt;a href=&quot;http://transfigurism.org/community/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mormon Transhumanist Association&lt;/a&gt;.  As for how marginal Ray Kurzweil is, we&#039;ll get a measure of that by how many prominent transhumanists decline to appear in his forthcoming film.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Giulio Prisco isn&#8217;t afraid to talk about the spiritual dimensions of transhumanism (see this <a href="http://transumanar.com/index.php/site/chat_with_r_geraci_on_transhumanism_religion_and_cosmic_engineers_in_vr" rel="nofollow">example </a>).  And we have a <a href="http://transfigurism.org/community/" rel="nofollow">Mormon Transhumanist Association</a>.  As for how marginal Ray Kurzweil is, we&#8217;ll get a measure of that by how many prominent transhumanists decline to appear in his forthcoming film.</p>
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		<title>By: steven</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=424&#038;cpage=1#comment-31116</link>
		<dc:creator>steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 04:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I wonder if you could name one or two transhumanists/singularitarians who are active online who you think are similar to Kurzweil in the relevant respects (technological/Moore&#039;s law determinism, spirituality), or indeed any who think in terms like &quot;transcendence&quot; or the creation of &quot;qualitatively superior types of beings&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if you could name one or two transhumanists/singularitarians who are active online who you think are similar to Kurzweil in the relevant respects (technological/Moore&#8217;s law determinism, spirituality), or indeed any who think in terms like &#8220;transcendence&#8221; or the creation of &#8220;qualitatively superior types of beings&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: steven</title>
		<link>http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=424&#038;cpage=1#comment-31115</link>
		<dc:creator>steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 04:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/?p=424#comment-31115</guid>
		<description>As I&#039;ve argued here before, you&#039;re taking the idiosyncratic views of Ray Kurzweil and unfairly attributing them to transhumanists/singularitarians in general. I think earlier when I pointed to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.transhumanism.org/resources/faq.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;World Transhumanist Association FAQ&lt;/a&gt;, you dismissed these online sources as unimportant because it&#039;s Kurzweil who writes best-selling books; fair enough, but then please don&#039;t say that these views are &quot;held by those (largely online) communities transhumanists and singularitarians&quot;. It&#039;s simply not true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I&#8217;ve argued here before, you&#8217;re taking the idiosyncratic views of Ray Kurzweil and unfairly attributing them to transhumanists/singularitarians in general. I think earlier when I pointed to the <a href="http://www.transhumanism.org/resources/faq.html" rel="nofollow">World Transhumanist Association FAQ</a>, you dismissed these online sources as unimportant because it&#8217;s Kurzweil who writes best-selling books; fair enough, but then please don&#8217;t say that these views are &#8220;held by those (largely online) communities transhumanists and singularitarians&#8221;. It&#8217;s simply not true.</p>
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